Official hearing transcript PDF (mirror)

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And so that was—kind of shook me because I realized that this
problem was still ongoing and so I reached out to colleagues back
on the East Coast and realized that this was still a safety risk that
they were dealing with, that they had essentially hit a wall with
how they could move forward on this conversation. It was at that
point when I decided to try to move the conversation forward my-
self.
Mr. RASKIN. Are there common characteristics to the UAPs that
have been cited by different pilots and can you describe what the
convergence of descriptions is?
Mr. GRAVES. Certainly. We were primarily seeing dark gray or
black cubes inside of a clear sphere.
Mr. RASKIN. I am sorry. Dark gray or black cubes?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes, inside of a clear sphere where the apex or tips
of the cube were touching the inside of that sphere, and that was
primarily what was being reported when we were able to gain a
visual tally of these objects. That occurred over almost 8 years and
as far as I know is still occurring.
Mr. RASKIN. So, I take it that you are arguing what we need is
real transparency and a reporting system so we can get some clar-
ity on what is going on out there because there are many pilots in
your situation. But we should have a way of developing a system-
atic inventory of all of such encounters. Is that right?
Mr. GRAVES. Yes, and I think we need both transparency and the
reporting. We have the reporting, but we need to make sure that
information can be promulgated to commercial aviation as well as
the rest of the populace.
Mr. RASKIN. Mr. Grusch, what about you? What was your experi-
ence after you came forward?
Mr. GRUSCH. Well, it has only been about 2 months or so. So, I
guess my experience has been overwhelming support from former
colleagues of mine that have, you know, privately messaged me and
I do appreciate that.
But I do have knowledge of active planned reprisal activity
against myself, and other colleagues and it is very, very upsetting
to me.
Mr. RASKIN. Coming from where?
Mr. GRUSCH. Certain senior leadership at previous agencies I
was associated with and that is all I will say publicly. But I can
provide more details in a closed environment.
Mr. RASKIN. OK. Well, I hope you understand that there would
be bipartisan rejection of any attempt to vilify, demonize, or engage
in other reprisals against our witnesses and people who are telling
the truth from their perspective.
Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. There were certain colleagues of mine that
were brutally administratively attacked, and it actually makes me
very upset as a leader to see that happen to other co-workers and
actually superiors of mine over the last 3 years.
Mr. RASKIN. How do you account for that response? That seems
like a bizarre response.
Mr. GRUSCH. I call it administrative terrorism. That is their
quiver—their tool in the toolbox to silence people, especially, you
know, career government service cares about their career, cares
about their clearance, their reputation to climb the ladder, and