Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
“The Pentagon”12 pages
46 Mr. ELIZONDO. I would take the scientific approach. The defini- tion would be the ability to react to a stimulus in a manner that requires an intellectual thought process. Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I just do not know. Mr. GOLD. I think we must be modest in our assumptions, that we are looking for intelligence. That could be biological; it might not. Ms. MACE. ‘‘Nonbiological.’’ ‘‘Nonbiological intelligence.’’ What does that mean, though? Mr. GOLD. Artificial intelligence, ML, machines. We assume that all intelligence would be like us, and every time we look out into the universe, we are humbled relative to what we do not know in terms of the forms of intelligence and what it may take. I can assure you I probably cannot answer your question, but I think the ultimate answer is going to surprise us all. Ms. MACE. And then Mr. Garcia has a few closing marks. Mr. GARCIA. And I know we are about to hit votes here, so I will be brief. Just, I want to thank you all for being here. I want to thank Chairwoman Mace, especially, for holding this important bipartisan hearing. And I want to thank all the Committee Members that are interested in this topic. I think our commitment to all of you and to all the folks that have contacted us and certainly to the advocates and the pilots is that we need to continue investigating UAPs. I think the country owes—the country is owed explanations. And to ensure that the safety of national security is always protected, this is a conversa- tion and questioning that must continue. So, I am very grateful to all of you. And I also just want to just add, just personally, I think it is really important, for me, two things guide my questioning and my observations on UAPs. One is, we should always be guided by facts, science, and data, and stay serious on those issues. And the second thing is, I think that we should not limit our imagination and our thoughts and our curiosity on what UAPs could actually be. And I think those two things, for me, are really important. And I am grateful for all of you to be here. So, with that, I yield back. Ms. MACE. OK. And we have Mr. Ogles who is on the way. He is going to be here any second; is that correct? Check. And he will be the last Member with questions that we have today. And then we are going to—we have votes. So, we want to thank you all for being here. I want to thank Mr. Garcia and folks on both sides of the aisle for being here today and being patient. We have a lot more ques- tions, and I hope that this will open the door to more hearings in the future. I obviously would like to know how much taxpayers are spending on this. You have the right to know. But, also, if we are spending money on something that does not exist, why are we spending the money? And if it does exist, why are we hiding it from the public?
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is above. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.