Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
“The Pentagon”12 pages
29 Mr. HIGGINS. OK. So, spheres and orbs, triangular craft, and ir- regular or organic craft include some descriptions of biological ef- fects, including feelings of unease, electronic device malfunctions, long-term psychological effects such as anxiety or insomnia have been noted, feeling of being watched, a shared awareness with the triangle craft. And under the irregular and organic craft, biological effects include physical sensations of warmth or cold and unex- plained smells and psychological distress. So, these are very specific descriptions of the reactions of human beings which allegedly have been noted from a study here, a report. All of those experiences would have been described by the sources that the author used? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. I am not sure I understand your question, sir. Mr. HIGGINS. This is a very broad description of biological effects, and it is striking to me that they are present with relation to some types of craft—— Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Right. Mr. HIGGINS [continuing]. But absent in others. This would re- quire a great deal of research and study. Can you explain that? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. My understanding is that this is—the data base is very large. It includes both the images, the videos, the still images, as well as the human intelligence, the reports, the raw data from individuals having these experiences. So, in answer to your question, yes, I mean, I think we are look- ing at a very large amount of data collected over many decades. Mr. HIGGINS. And that data is held by the Department of De- fense? Mr. SHELLENBERGER. Well, I will say that, after I published, I was told that this program—that the USAP was actually managed by the Department of Defense but held at the White House. Mr. HIGGINS. Roger that. Mr. SHELLENBERGER. But that is a single source, and I do not have multiple sources to verify that. Mr. HIGGINS. Thank you, sir. I did my best to trick an answer out of you, but—I was partially successful. Madam Chair, I yield. Ms. MACE. Thank you. I would now recognize Mr. Frost for 5 minutes of questions. Mr. FROST. Thank you, Madam Chair. In addition to serving on this Committee, the Oversight Com- mittee, I also serve on the Science, Space, and Technology Com- mittee, where we often discuss how essential data and evidence are used in science and used at departments such as NASA. During a hearing, NASA Administrator Nelson affirmed the importance of NASA in helping us to understand UAP. Mr. Gold, if the government does not have the data it needs on UAP because, say, someone who saw something is concerned about stigma, public backlash, et cetera, or maybe there is just not good systems in place, how are we supposed to ultimately figure out what is going on? Mr. GOLD. Yes. Thank you for the question.
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is above. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.