Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the transcript of a joint hearing held November 13, 2024 by two subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, chaired by Rep. Nancy Mace. The witnesses were Tim Gallaudet, Luis Elizondo, Michael Shellenberger and Michael Gold. They addressed government secrecy, AARO's transparency, a Pentagon document on the alleged Immaculate Constellation program, threats to pilot safety, and UAP activity near nuclear and military sites. Members also discussed UAP disclosure legislation.
“Nevers”15 pages
21 Mr. ELIZONDO. I will say the Department of Defense. Unfortu- nately, I cannot say in this forum much more than that. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. You specifically said the document said you can- not talk about crash retrieval. Well, you know, you cannot talk about fight club if there is no fight club. Mr. ELIZONDO. Correct. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. OK. I am just making an observation. Mr. ELIZONDO. Yes, sir. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. So, that document that you signed that you said exists specifically said you cannot talk about crash retrieval? Mr. ELIZONDO. Correct, sir. It was a limitation on what I—be- cause already I had been speaking publicly about the topic, and so the document said, ‘‘You can continue saying X, Y, Z, but you can- not discuss the topic of crash retrieval.’’ Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Give me the atmosphere of signing this docu- ment. You are in a room by yourself? Mr. ELIZONDO. I am in a SCIF with a security officer, sir. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Just one on one? Anybody else? Mr. ELIZONDO. There may have been an assistant as well. It was in a SCIF within a Department of Defense facility. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Give me your background real quick. Mr. ELIZONDO. My background is I went to school to study micro- biology and immunology. I entered into the U.S. Army, and after a very short stint in military intelligence, I became a counterintel- ligence special agent as a civilian. Later on, I became a special agent in charge, running investigations and counter terrorism and counter espionage primarily with some experience in counter insur- gency and counter narcotics. And then, in 2009 timeframe, when I came back to the Pentagon after a tour with the Director of National Intelligence, I quickly be- came part of a program that was originally called AAWSAP. That evolved into the program now called AATIP, which is where those videos that we now see, the GOFAST, the GIMBAL, the FLIR, that was part of our effort, sir. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Right. So, you are not some conspiracy theorist. You actually have a legitimate background. Mr. ELIZONDO. Well, sir, I am certainly not a conspiracy theorist. I am fact-based, just a fact—— Mr. MOSKOWITZ. So, when you are in this room—I want to paint the picture for everybody. You are in this room. You are by your- self. You are in the SCIF. You are handed a document. How long is the document? Mr. ELIZONDO. It is about a page front and back. So, basically, you have some things they call trigraphs, which I cannot, again, talk—— Mr. MOSKOWITZ. How long were you given to sign the document? Mr. ELIZONDO. As long as I needed, sir. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. And what if you did not sign it? Mr. ELIZONDO. Well, I suspect there would be repercussions. I would not have access to certain information. Mr. MOSKOWITZ. Were you allowed to conduct—ask a lawyer or you were not allowed to talk—you were not allowed to ask for a lawyer to review the document?
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is under it. 52 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.