Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the printed transcript of a September 9, 2025 hearing held by the U.S. House Oversight Committee's Task Force on the Declassification of Federal Secrets, chaired by Rep. Anna Paulina Luna. The witnesses were Jeffrey Nuccetelli, Alexandro Wiggins, George Knapp, Dylan Borland and Joe Spielberger. They described UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base from 2003 to 2005 and a tic-tac-shaped object seen from USS Jackson in 2023. Members criticized AARO and called for whistleblower protections and the UAP Disclosure Act.
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40 The Chair would now like to recognize Mr. Begich for 5 minutes. Mr. BEGICH. Thank you, Madam Chair. First question, Mr. Borland, earlier today, you mentioned that in a SCIF you would be able to discuss whether a Member of Con- gress is actually legally able to access certain information. Under what authority would a Member of Congress be restricted from ac- cessing information on this topic even within a SCIF? Mr. BORLAND. I would suggest reaching out to Director Gabbard and speaking with her about that. I am hopeful that this goes back to the executive branch and who even has authority. Unfortu- nately, I cannot give you a 100 percent solid answer because I do not even have that knowledge. Mr. BEGICH. Next question to George Knapp. What is the esti- mated annual budget, your view, for the program for investigating or reverse engineering UAP-related technology, including official, misappropriated, or black budget funds? Mr. KNAPP. I would not have a clue. I do not know of any person that has ever seen it. Mr. BEGICH. Does anyone on this panel wish to address that question? Okay. Moving on. Are any of you willing to name specific gatekeepers within the root cell of the UAP SAP federation? Mr. KNAPP. You mean specific people and contractors that have dealt with this and kept the secret? Mr. BEGICH. Specific individuals. Mr. KNAPP. Well, one of them was named Dr. James Ryder at Lockheed. But, you know, again, to emphasize, I do not fault these contractors for doing what they were asked to do by our govern- ment. They are supposed to lie if people ask about it. And the intel- ligence agencies who gave this stuff to them, CIA I think primarily, told them to keep it quiet, and they have done that. And I suspect that they would like an offramp, that they would like some help with figuring out this technology at some point. Mr. BEGICH. And this is, again, available to anyone. Is there a security classification guide for UAP or NHI? Mr. NUCCETELLI. I was—I remember in the 2003 or 2023 hear- ing, it was stated that all UAP-related material is classified secret or above. Mr. KNAPP. I have a name for you. Mr. BEGICH. Go ahead. Mr. KNAPP. Glenn Gaffney, CIA. Mr. BEGICH. Glenn Gaffney, CIA. Another question for you, Mr. Knapp. In your view, having investigated this issue for so many years, what is the long game with respect to disclosure of this in- formation to the public? Because with the advent of essentially a video camera and a high megapixel phone in everybody’s pocket, at some point, this information is going to be impossible to withhold from the public. What do you think is the long game here? Mr. KNAPP. Well, the secret’s out. I mean, how many videos have there been already? You know, videos that are leaked from within the military and intelligence agencies and contractors and censor platforms, it is out there. But they have the high ground. The peo- ple that do not want us to take it seriously dismiss it, discredit the witnesses, come up with a cover story. I mean, it has been out
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Hearing transcript, from the govinfo collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is above. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.