Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the printed transcript of a September 9, 2025 hearing held by the U.S. House Oversight Committee's Task Force on the Declassification of Federal Secrets, chaired by Rep. Anna Paulina Luna. The witnesses were Jeffrey Nuccetelli, Alexandro Wiggins, George Knapp, Dylan Borland and Joe Spielberger. They described UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base from 2003 to 2005 and a tic-tac-shaped object seen from USS Jackson in 2023. Members criticized AARO and called for whistleblower protections and the UAP Disclosure Act.
20 Ms. MACE. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. Mr. Borland, I would like to start with you and ask a few ques- tions. Were there any other witnesses—when you saw the equi- lateral triangle, were there other witnesses that saw the same thing? Mr. BORLAND. Not to my knowledge, ma’am. At that point, the only people that would be awake is those of us that were doing op- erations for the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT) and then secu- rity forces, so not to my knowledge. Ms. MACE. And do you think, in your opinion, that the equi- lateral triangle was the U.S. Government’s technology? Mr. BORLAND. I did once upon a time, but knowing what I know now, I will have to answer that question in a sensitive compart- mented information facility (SCIF) probably. Ms. MACE. Well, my next question is, you teased us, so knowing what you know now means what? Mr. BORLAND. I know enough to know that if you want an an- swer to that question, go to AARO. Ms. MACE. Okay. Mr. BORLAND. They have the answer. Ms. MACE. Do you think it was a foreign government? Mr. BORLAND. I do not, no. Ms. MACE. And AARO is supposed to be disclosing—the last time I was in a SCIF with AARO, they said they were going to be doing disclosures. Had they been doing much of that? Mr. BORLAND. I do not have an answer to you—— Ms. MACE. Yes. Mr. BORLAND [continuing]. For you. I do not know. I know what AARO reports publicly, and I know what I have been through. Ms. MACE. Yes. And some of this stuff can be, I think, debunked, right? Sometimes, there are weather balloons that look kind of a little funky or drones or whatever, depending on the angle, direc- tion, speed, et cetera. Are you scared for your safety? Mr. BORLAND. That is a complicated question. So, being here today, if I say the wrong word, technically, I can be charged with espionage. Espionage is a death penalty. Whistleblowers have faced it, John Kiriakou, for example. I am not scared for my physical safety in the sense of an agency or company coming to kill me, but I have no job. My career is—has been tarnished. You know, I am unemployed, living off of unemployment for the next three, four weeks until that is gone. So, it is a complicated question. Ms. MACE. Have there been stories leaked about your life to try to discredit you in the public eye? Mr. BORLAND. I—as of now, I do not know. Up until—— Ms. MACE. We know they did that to Mr. Grusch. Mr. BORLAND. I am aware, yes, ma’am. Ms. MACE. They leaked his private medical information, horrific things. Mr. BORLAND. It is. Ms. MACE. Okay. You said in your testimony earlier with the Chairwoman, you know other things. I guess that has to be men- tioned in a SCIF—— Mr. BORLAND. It would——
Hearing transcript, from the govinfo collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is above. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.