“Nevers”49 pages
- p. 17 …of alien beings and elusive vehicles which never quite
seem to manifest themselves. Regardless of one…
- p. 31 …Conversely, there
has never been any previous documentary evidence produced by those who
would debunk the…
- p. 32 …This had never been
officially done before, although most of the persons contacted reported that they…
- p. 40 …Lt Col Cavitt also
stated that he had never taken any oath or signed any agreement…
- p. 77 …Because this conclusion is based on
the absence of documentation, the issue can never be definitively…
- p. 99 …H written, there is
good evidence through accessioning and microfilming records that the Agency never
received…
- p. 101 …histories and
supporting documents, and it has never routinely received the kind of records which
might…
- p. 159 …I have never been sworn to any form of secrecy by anyone concerning this matter and…
- p. 165 …It never crossed my mind that it could be anything but a radio sonde.
RW: How…
- p. 168 …as far as I knew, I never heard anyone say, "Don't talk about this
and…
- p. 169 …I never met LaPaz personally, but I knew what he was.
RW: Did Rickett go with…
- p. 170 …I forget since I was there in the Washington
area for awhile but I never did…
- p. 172 …To the best of my recollection, I never met the rancher, Brazel.
RW: O.K., because…
- p. 173 …rve never seen a Geiger counter myseU: but I didn't know if you knew what…
- p. 174 …ordered Marcel to accompany the rancher back
to Corona, •· You said you never saw... and then…
- p. 175 …I never had any idea that it was anything with the V-2. They told us…
- p. 177 …You and I never saw this. You don't see
any military people or military vehicles…
- p. 178 …said in a facetious way: "Lets make out like it never existed, because we're wasting…
- p. 179 …to him the crash and recovery had never happened.
There was no investigation on the Foster…
- p. 182 …No, I never saw this.
SC: I don't know what that is from.
RW: "But…
- p. 183 …So, some of there
records were TS and still are.) That is because they have never…
- p. 185 …Cav never
told me anything. He said nl never tell you anything then you won't…
- p. 189 …I am quite sure that we never gave it a thought until that book.
- p. 190 …Now, we have never found the ftight records to
substantiate that, so I don't know…
- p. 202 …related
to this inquicy and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning not…
- p. 207 …related to this inquiry
and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning refraining…
- p. 213 …We never considered a ..planneq cover story; we were concerned with security.
I was the project…
- p. 214 …I never obsCJVed any of the balloon "trains" but I
did see some of the early…
- p. 225 …and subsequent models were
brand new, had never flown anything like that in this area.
A…
- p. 228 …I'd never heard the
name Mogul -- the classification was that high. I knew what we…
- p. 240 …I just wanted to see
if there had been anything stated to you never to discuss…
- p. 242 …but I never knew Marcel.
in my mind, and there are
Yeah, I knew that guy…
- p. 243 …I've never seen a Japanese balloon that I know
of, I've never seen the…
- p. 246 …No, I've never seen this.
Trakowski argued that even the name Mogul was classified,
and…
- p. 249 …Out PM with
several NYU men by weapons carrier, but we never located it.
Rocket postponed…
- p. 264 …As far as I know we just
never interfaced with the military.
Q: Where were you…
- p. 266 …We never saw
anybody in security. There was certainly nobody keeping us
secure. If anything, we…
- p. 273 …who was writing a story,
and I never quite could determine whether he was on the…
- p. 274 …I have never seen such a document nor have I ever heard of
any effort to…
- p. 277 …radar
reflectors for tracking purposes-but it never comes out talking about MOGUL and the instrumentation…
- p. 278 …I never met Richard Robert Crane. I knew him only by the path of debris he…
- p. 282 …They never said it, but I know they did because they left me free to
do…
- p. 318 …Before now, however, a larger portion of the story was never
told. Recent research indicates that…
- p. 320 …and Project MOGUL as first conceived was never put into operational 1use.
However, MOGUL did serve…
- p. 321 …Moore, NYU Constant-Level
Balloon Project Engineer, stated that they were never informed of the classified…
- p. 567 …and this flight 11as never recovered. Pre-
sumably the marked easterly flow then observed above 60…
- p. 591 …ficienoy since on-ot.f' operation was never per-
mitted.
The temperature data of' these flights…
- p. 740 …The theodolite lost the balloon in clouds earlier and
the airplane observer never succeeded in seeing…
- p. 815 …Out pm with several NYU by weapon carrier but we never located it. Rocket
postponed until…
COL TRAKOWSKI - 6/29/94 10
A: It's about 45 years since all of this happened. Even at the time, as I mentioned a moment
ago, one gets very busy in a project of this sort, and you treat rather large events as they come; you give
them action, and then you go on to the next. All of these events don't stay in memory.
Q: We understand that you've been contacted by various people such as Mr. Pflock and Mr.
Todd, and we do appreciate your spending some time with us in this endeavor. We think it's very valuable
for people who were actually on the scene to provide their accounts of what occurred. It is valuable to
us, and we do appreciate that.
A: I wish I could be of more help on this thing. Apparently, things like this die very hard.
(Laughter)
Q: Did you ever hear of any intelligence people getting involved in this thing? Colonel Duffy
mentioned that some of the people at AMC maybe wanted ...
A: No, I don't. Certainly no intelligence people ... Certainly I was not involved with any
intelligence people in this matter. If I was, I don't recall it. Colonel Duffy and the group at Wright Field
protected me greatly, I know that. They never said it, but I know they did because they left me free to
do the project. And if anything would interfere with getting the project done as quickly as possible, they
would try to steer that away from me. I know they did. Again, they never said it, but their actions were
obvious.
(Pause)
A: .. .1 was assigned for about two months to AFOAT-1. Then Colonel Benjamin Holtzman,
later General Holtzman, pulled me out of AFOAT-1 and sent me to Baltimore because the Air Research
and Development Command had just been organized, and I arrived on the scene while they were still
trying to find chairs and desks. We worked in the old Sun newspaper building in downtown Baltimore.
Q: They had intelligence personnel there, didn't they?
A: They may have. I'm not aware of that. Then after I left the headquarters of ARDC in
Baltimore, I spent four years at the Air Force Research and Development Command Office in Brussels,
Belgium. Following that, I spent more than three years on the Air Staff in the Pentagon.
Q: What year did you retire?
A: On my birthday in 1963. I then went into industry, and I worked for EG&G, a high-
technology company based near Boston, and I became a Vice President of one of their subsidiaries. I
became the project manager and developer of the National Space Science Data Center at Goddard, in
Greenbelt, Maryland. I built that and set it up.
Then when the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, was formed in December of 1970,
I was invited to join the newly formed EPA, and I did. I accepted the position. I went into the EPA as
a Deputy Assistant Administrator in the Office of Research and Development. Then in 1973 and 1974 I
served as Assistant Administrator for Research and Development in the EPA, the position from which I
retired in 1982.