“Nevers”49 pages
- p. 17 …of alien beings and elusive vehicles which never quite
seem to manifest themselves. Regardless of one…
- p. 31 …Conversely, there
has never been any previous documentary evidence produced by those who
would debunk the…
- p. 32 …This had never been
officially done before, although most of the persons contacted reported that they…
- p. 40 …Lt Col Cavitt also
stated that he had never taken any oath or signed any agreement…
- p. 77 …Because this conclusion is based on
the absence of documentation, the issue can never be definitively…
- p. 99 …H written, there is
good evidence through accessioning and microfilming records that the Agency never
received…
- p. 101 …histories and
supporting documents, and it has never routinely received the kind of records which
might…
- p. 159 …I have never been sworn to any form of secrecy by anyone concerning this matter and…
- p. 165 …It never crossed my mind that it could be anything but a radio sonde.
RW: How…
- p. 168 …as far as I knew, I never heard anyone say, "Don't talk about this
and…
- p. 169 …I never met LaPaz personally, but I knew what he was.
RW: Did Rickett go with…
- p. 170 …I forget since I was there in the Washington
area for awhile but I never did…
- p. 172 …To the best of my recollection, I never met the rancher, Brazel.
RW: O.K., because…
- p. 173 …rve never seen a Geiger counter myseU: but I didn't know if you knew what…
- p. 174 …ordered Marcel to accompany the rancher back
to Corona, •· You said you never saw... and then…
- p. 175 …I never had any idea that it was anything with the V-2. They told us…
- p. 177 …You and I never saw this. You don't see
any military people or military vehicles…
- p. 178 …said in a facetious way: "Lets make out like it never existed, because we're wasting…
- p. 179 …to him the crash and recovery had never happened.
There was no investigation on the Foster…
- p. 182 …No, I never saw this.
SC: I don't know what that is from.
RW: "But…
- p. 183 …So, some of there
records were TS and still are.) That is because they have never…
- p. 185 …Cav never
told me anything. He said nl never tell you anything then you won't…
- p. 189 …I am quite sure that we never gave it a thought until that book.
- p. 190 …Now, we have never found the ftight records to
substantiate that, so I don't know…
- p. 202 …related
to this inquicy and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning not…
- p. 207 …related to this inquiry
and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning refraining…
- p. 213 …We never considered a ..planneq cover story; we were concerned with security.
I was the project…
- p. 214 …I never obsCJVed any of the balloon "trains" but I
did see some of the early…
- p. 225 …and subsequent models were
brand new, had never flown anything like that in this area.
A…
- p. 228 …I'd never heard the
name Mogul -- the classification was that high. I knew what we…
- p. 240 …I just wanted to see
if there had been anything stated to you never to discuss…
- p. 242 …but I never knew Marcel.
in my mind, and there are
Yeah, I knew that guy…
- p. 243 …I've never seen a Japanese balloon that I know
of, I've never seen the…
- p. 246 …No, I've never seen this.
Trakowski argued that even the name Mogul was classified,
and…
- p. 249 …Out PM with
several NYU men by weapons carrier, but we never located it.
Rocket postponed…
- p. 264 …As far as I know we just
never interfaced with the military.
Q: Where were you…
- p. 266 …We never saw
anybody in security. There was certainly nobody keeping us
secure. If anything, we…
- p. 273 …who was writing a story,
and I never quite could determine whether he was on the…
- p. 274 …I have never seen such a document nor have I ever heard of
any effort to…
- p. 277 …radar
reflectors for tracking purposes-but it never comes out talking about MOGUL and the instrumentation…
- p. 278 …I never met Richard Robert Crane. I knew him only by the path of debris he…
- p. 282 …They never said it, but I know they did because they left me free to
do…
- p. 318 …Before now, however, a larger portion of the story was never
told. Recent research indicates that…
- p. 320 …and Project MOGUL as first conceived was never put into operational 1use.
However, MOGUL did serve…
- p. 321 …Moore, NYU Constant-Level
Balloon Project Engineer, stated that they were never informed of the classified…
- p. 567 …and this flight 11as never recovered. Pre-
sumably the marked easterly flow then observed above 60…
- p. 591 …ficienoy since on-ot.f' operation was never per-
mitted.
The temperature data of' these flights…
- p. 740 …The theodolite lost the balloon in clouds earlier and
the airplane observer never succeeded in seeing…
- p. 815 …Out pm with several NYU by weapon carrier but we never located it. Rocket
postponed until…
COL TRAKOWSKI - 6/29/94 9
Q: At some point in Project MOGUL did you utilize equipment based at Roswell Army Air
Field?
A: No, we had our own aircraft based at Fort Dix, New Jersey.
Q: Did you ever have a rawinsonde receiver at Roswell?
A: Not to my memory. No. We may have, but the specifics on that, I don't recall.
Q: Can you think of any reason why Dr. Peoples would meet with one of the bomb squadron
commanders at Roswell in September of 1947?
A: Probably to arrange air drops of bombs as signal sources for testing the MOGUL sound
receivers. We had a fellow who was assigned to the electronics test squadron at Fort Dix by the name of
Duff, Eugene Duff, an ordnance expert, and he may have been involved in arranging for bombs to be
exploded in the air as sound signal sources for testing the MOGUL receivers.
Q: Did you also procure aircraft from Middletown, Pennsylvania?
A: Yes. I believe our electronic squadron was moved from Fort Dix to Middletown-to
Olmstead Air Force Base. When that was, I can't exactly pinpoint, but it was probably some time in 1947.
Gene Duff, our ordnance man, was a part of that group. I don't know whether Gene Duff stillli ves or not,
but he is a name that you might look into. Eugene Duff.
Q: Has anyone asked you to explain what happened at Roswell? In your opinion, what
happened?
A: Until these recent inquiries, I don't recall anyone asking me to explain. I don't recall it
ever coming up for me to answer in connection with the MOGUL tests. I don't recall that. You know,
things happen every day, and you treat crises from moment to moment as though they were so much
cordwood. They aren't all worthy of memory. But I don't recall it.
Q: Other than our conversation here today, has anyone ever discussed with you not talking
about MOGUL? It's essentially declassified-it is no longer a classified project-but has anyone in the
government-the Air Force, the Army, the Department of Energy, or anyone else-ever said don't discuss
this?
A: Absolutely not. No such thing.
Q: What we're trying to do is make sure we are open to the General Accounting Office and
to the American public as a whole when we publish our reports. So to all the people we've discussed this
with, we want to make absolutely certain that someone has not come to them and said, you're going to
get in the cover story. We want this to be as open as possible and get this thing resolved once and for all.
There are going to be those individuals-as you have stated, the true believers-who may not accept what
we have to say, but we just want to try to get everything out in the open.