“Nevers”49 pages
- p. 17 …of alien beings and elusive vehicles which never quite
seem to manifest themselves. Regardless of one…
- p. 31 …Conversely, there
has never been any previous documentary evidence produced by those who
would debunk the…
- p. 32 …This had never been
officially done before, although most of the persons contacted reported that they…
- p. 40 …Lt Col Cavitt also
stated that he had never taken any oath or signed any agreement…
- p. 77 …Because this conclusion is based on
the absence of documentation, the issue can never be definitively…
- p. 99 …H written, there is
good evidence through accessioning and microfilming records that the Agency never
received…
- p. 101 …histories and
supporting documents, and it has never routinely received the kind of records which
might…
- p. 159 …I have never been sworn to any form of secrecy by anyone concerning this matter and…
- p. 165 …It never crossed my mind that it could be anything but a radio sonde.
RW: How…
- p. 168 …as far as I knew, I never heard anyone say, "Don't talk about this
and…
- p. 169 …I never met LaPaz personally, but I knew what he was.
RW: Did Rickett go with…
- p. 170 …I forget since I was there in the Washington
area for awhile but I never did…
- p. 172 …To the best of my recollection, I never met the rancher, Brazel.
RW: O.K., because…
- p. 173 …rve never seen a Geiger counter myseU: but I didn't know if you knew what…
- p. 174 …ordered Marcel to accompany the rancher back
to Corona, •· You said you never saw... and then…
- p. 175 …I never had any idea that it was anything with the V-2. They told us…
- p. 177 …You and I never saw this. You don't see
any military people or military vehicles…
- p. 178 …said in a facetious way: "Lets make out like it never existed, because we're wasting…
- p. 179 …to him the crash and recovery had never happened.
There was no investigation on the Foster…
- p. 182 …No, I never saw this.
SC: I don't know what that is from.
RW: "But…
- p. 183 …So, some of there
records were TS and still are.) That is because they have never…
- p. 185 …Cav never
told me anything. He said nl never tell you anything then you won't…
- p. 189 …I am quite sure that we never gave it a thought until that book.
- p. 190 …Now, we have never found the ftight records to
substantiate that, so I don't know…
- p. 202 …related
to this inquicy and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning not…
- p. 207 …related to this inquiry
and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning refraining…
- p. 213 …We never considered a ..planneq cover story; we were concerned with security.
I was the project…
- p. 214 …I never obsCJVed any of the balloon "trains" but I
did see some of the early…
- p. 225 …and subsequent models were
brand new, had never flown anything like that in this area.
A…
- p. 228 …I'd never heard the
name Mogul -- the classification was that high. I knew what we…
- p. 240 …I just wanted to see
if there had been anything stated to you never to discuss…
- p. 242 …but I never knew Marcel.
in my mind, and there are
Yeah, I knew that guy…
- p. 243 …I've never seen a Japanese balloon that I know
of, I've never seen the…
- p. 246 …No, I've never seen this.
Trakowski argued that even the name Mogul was classified,
and…
- p. 249 …Out PM with
several NYU men by weapons carrier, but we never located it.
Rocket postponed…
- p. 264 …As far as I know we just
never interfaced with the military.
Q: Where were you…
- p. 266 …We never saw
anybody in security. There was certainly nobody keeping us
secure. If anything, we…
- p. 273 …who was writing a story,
and I never quite could determine whether he was on the…
- p. 274 …I have never seen such a document nor have I ever heard of
any effort to…
- p. 277 …radar
reflectors for tracking purposes-but it never comes out talking about MOGUL and the instrumentation…
- p. 278 …I never met Richard Robert Crane. I knew him only by the path of debris he…
- p. 282 …They never said it, but I know they did because they left me free to
do…
- p. 318 …Before now, however, a larger portion of the story was never
told. Recent research indicates that…
- p. 320 …and Project MOGUL as first conceived was never put into operational 1use.
However, MOGUL did serve…
- p. 321 …Moore, NYU Constant-Level
Balloon Project Engineer, stated that they were never informed of the classified…
- p. 567 …and this flight 11as never recovered. Pre-
sumably the marked easterly flow then observed above 60…
- p. 591 …ficienoy since on-ot.f' operation was never per-
mitted.
The temperature data of' these flights…
- p. 740 …The theodolite lost the balloon in clouds earlier and
the airplane observer never succeeded in seeing…
- p. 815 …Out pm with several NYU by weapon carrier but we never located it. Rocket
postponed until…
COL TRAKOWSKI - 6/29/94 7
were out of channel, so to speak. It was on such an occasion that Ed Istvan acted to line up contractors
for these targets. He got into a considerable amount of, shall we say, controversy with the Signal Corps
because he was out of line.
Q: Do you recall any of the contractors he may have worked with?
A: No, I don't remember them by name. They were not within my purview at the time. As
I have told others, including Mr. Pflock, we had an outstanding expeditor on our staff, on Colonel Duffy's
staff, by the name of John E. Peterson. Jack Peterson was a major at the time. He was a prewar graduate
of Harvard Business School, and he knew business operations inside and out. Again, he was an extremely
energetic fellow. He was very, very valuable and successful at breaking loose stuck contracts and stuck
production and things that weren't moving as fast as they should. During the war that was very important.
Jack monitored the procurement of these radar targets, and I believe Ed Istvan either worked for
or alongside Jack Peterson, and I remember when they finally ... Now this was all not under my purview,
but I worked in the same building with them, and I knew Jack very well, he was a very good friend and
we talked and joked with each other a lot. I remember so clearly when the contractor for these targets was
selected, and Jack thought it was the biggest joke in the world that they had to go to a toy manufacturer
to make these radar targets. Then it was even a bigger joke when it turned out that because of wartime
scarcities of materials, the tape that they used to assemble these targets, the reflecting material on the balsa
frames, was some kind of a pinkish purple tape with a heart and flower design on it. This was, again, a
big flap.
Q: Did you ever see any of those?
A: Yeah, I saw some of them. Not in connection with my work, but they were around the
office. The prototypes were around the office, and the first production runs were there.
Q: So you would say it's a limited number of a few runs maybe.
A: I have no idea how many hundreds were made, or even thousands. But like everything
else that goes into production, the contractors have a limited production to begin with until they work out
the bugs, and then they go full blower in the high production.
Q: Do you remember a rough span of times when you saw these: when you saw the first one,
and when you saw the last?
A: It was probably 1944 or 1945. It was probably late in 1944 when the first ones were
produced.
Q: Where did you see those? What part of the country?
A: Right there at Signal Corps. We were all working at that time, and John Peterson had his
offices at the Toms River Signal Laboratory, which was actually located on the jurisdictional lines between
Sea Girt and Springlake, New Jersey. It was an old night club that the Signal Corps had rented for the
purposes of doing remote experimentation.