“Nevers”49 pages
- p. 17 …of alien beings and elusive vehicles which never quite
seem to manifest themselves. Regardless of one…
- p. 31 …Conversely, there
has never been any previous documentary evidence produced by those who
would debunk the…
- p. 32 …This had never been
officially done before, although most of the persons contacted reported that they…
- p. 40 …Lt Col Cavitt also
stated that he had never taken any oath or signed any agreement…
- p. 77 …Because this conclusion is based on
the absence of documentation, the issue can never be definitively…
- p. 99 …H written, there is
good evidence through accessioning and microfilming records that the Agency never
received…
- p. 101 …histories and
supporting documents, and it has never routinely received the kind of records which
might…
- p. 159 …I have never been sworn to any form of secrecy by anyone concerning this matter and…
- p. 165 …It never crossed my mind that it could be anything but a radio sonde.
RW: How…
- p. 168 …as far as I knew, I never heard anyone say, "Don't talk about this
and…
- p. 169 …I never met LaPaz personally, but I knew what he was.
RW: Did Rickett go with…
- p. 170 …I forget since I was there in the Washington
area for awhile but I never did…
- p. 172 …To the best of my recollection, I never met the rancher, Brazel.
RW: O.K., because…
- p. 173 …rve never seen a Geiger counter myseU: but I didn't know if you knew what…
- p. 174 …ordered Marcel to accompany the rancher back
to Corona, •· You said you never saw... and then…
- p. 175 …I never had any idea that it was anything with the V-2. They told us…
- p. 177 …You and I never saw this. You don't see
any military people or military vehicles…
- p. 178 …said in a facetious way: "Lets make out like it never existed, because we're wasting…
- p. 179 …to him the crash and recovery had never happened.
There was no investigation on the Foster…
- p. 182 …No, I never saw this.
SC: I don't know what that is from.
RW: "But…
- p. 183 …So, some of there
records were TS and still are.) That is because they have never…
- p. 185 …Cav never
told me anything. He said nl never tell you anything then you won't…
- p. 189 …I am quite sure that we never gave it a thought until that book.
- p. 190 …Now, we have never found the ftight records to
substantiate that, so I don't know…
- p. 202 …related
to this inquicy and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning not…
- p. 207 …related to this inquiry
and I have never been threatened by US Government persons concerning refraining…
- p. 213 …We never considered a ..planneq cover story; we were concerned with security.
I was the project…
- p. 214 …I never obsCJVed any of the balloon "trains" but I
did see some of the early…
- p. 225 …and subsequent models were
brand new, had never flown anything like that in this area.
A…
- p. 228 …I'd never heard the
name Mogul -- the classification was that high. I knew what we…
- p. 240 …I just wanted to see
if there had been anything stated to you never to discuss…
- p. 242 …but I never knew Marcel.
in my mind, and there are
Yeah, I knew that guy…
- p. 243 …I've never seen a Japanese balloon that I know
of, I've never seen the…
- p. 246 …No, I've never seen this.
Trakowski argued that even the name Mogul was classified,
and…
- p. 249 …Out PM with
several NYU men by weapons carrier, but we never located it.
Rocket postponed…
- p. 264 …As far as I know we just
never interfaced with the military.
Q: Where were you…
- p. 266 …We never saw
anybody in security. There was certainly nobody keeping us
secure. If anything, we…
- p. 273 …who was writing a story,
and I never quite could determine whether he was on the…
- p. 274 …I have never seen such a document nor have I ever heard of
any effort to…
- p. 277 …radar
reflectors for tracking purposes-but it never comes out talking about MOGUL and the instrumentation…
- p. 278 …I never met Richard Robert Crane. I knew him only by the path of debris he…
- p. 282 …They never said it, but I know they did because they left me free to
do…
- p. 318 …Before now, however, a larger portion of the story was never
told. Recent research indicates that…
- p. 320 …and Project MOGUL as first conceived was never put into operational 1use.
However, MOGUL did serve…
- p. 321 …Moore, NYU Constant-Level
Balloon Project Engineer, stated that they were never informed of the classified…
- p. 567 …and this flight 11as never recovered. Pre-
sumably the marked easterly flow then observed above 60…
- p. 591 …ficienoy since on-ot.f' operation was never per-
mitted.
The temperature data of' these flights…
- p. 740 …The theodolite lost the balloon in clouds earlier and
the airplane observer never succeeded in seeing…
- p. 815 …Out pm with several NYU by weapon carrier but we never located it. Rocket
postponed until…
COL TRAKOWSKI - 6129/94 6
Q: A few more names came off that news article where they're displaying the balloon
launch-Maj. W. D. Pritchard, Maj. C. W. Mangum, Lieutenant Siegal, and a Capt. L. H. Dyvad.
A: None of those names are in my memory, firm in my memory, at all.
Q: You were aware of the previous Colonel Duffy's predecessor, Major Crane ...
A: I never met Richard [Robert] Crane. I knew him only by the path of debris he left behind.
I never met him.
Q: When you took over, was there any worry about security on the project, that security was
possibly a problem, or that there was a problem or that there could be a potential problem that might
warrant scrutiny by Air Force intelligence or security people?
A: We were aware of the delicacy of security on the project, and the reason was obvious. You
could not conduct field operations of the size that we had to without somebody asking questions. Anybody
with a pair of 8x50 binoculars on the side of the mountain could look down and see what was going on,
and that, of course, would prompt questions. We were aware of all that, and we didn't really know what
to do about it except to go on doing our job and taking care of things as they occurred. But we were
aware of the sensitivity and of the weakness of security in Project MOGUL. Not from the people in the
project, not disclosure by them, but simply the obvious activity that could be observed.
You can't fill a balloon that's give-or-take 60 feet high without somebody seeing it.
Q: When you were at Alamagordo and some of the various balloons were being launched,
what was the largest array that you saw out there?
A: You mean payload?
Q: No, the entire assembly. The balloons, payloads, reflectors ...
A: I didn't observe any of the reflectors, and if I did, they were so commonplace that it
wouldn't have stuck in my memory. The neoprene balloons bearing reflectors were just common
occurrences. I wouldn't have lodged any of those observations in memory because they were just too
common.
Q: Charlie Moore has indicated that some of the balloons they tried during the early
experiments were the relatively new types of reflectors that probably had never been used in New Mexico
before, the M307B model, and that Ed Istvan had gone to several essentially toy manufacturers, to try to
get some of these reflectors made.
A: That's correct. I don't know [about] that Ed Istvan ... Ed Istvan got out of line. Charlie may
have told you this, and I don't mean to tell tales about Ed, but Ed was a very .. .indeed, every man on
Colonel Duffy's staff was very energetic. It was the Signal Corps' responsibility to procure those targets;
it was not the responsibility of our and Colonel Duffy's office. However, to accelerate the activity of the
Signal Corps and spur them to action, our Air Force officers in Colonel Duffy's office were literally on
the backs of the Signal Corps people who did the job, and oftentimes did things they shouldn't have and