Ford Broadcasts, 1965-1966: 12237637

Read from the scan by GLM-OCR; expect the odd misread word.

MR. HOVEY: Mr. Mboya, I know Mr. Ngei subsequently denied this and, incidentally, The Times also carried the denial, but you must have been worried with some pretty big names involved in this new party yourself, because I believe on March 14 you said something about the "big names in this game put forward some persons to start the party for them and wait to see public reaction before coming into the open." Now, that surely must have been aimed at Mr. Odinga, Mr. Ngei or people at a comparable level in Kenyan politics.

MR. MBOYA: I still believe that certain big names were involved, but this does not remove my point that-even if any big names were involved, that does not mean that a tribe was committed. And I think this idea of associating leadership with tribe and exaggerating the influence of a leader on a tribe is most misleading and also is destructive.

MR. HARSCH: Mr. Minister, to what extent was the economy of your country dependent upon aid from the Communist countries, from Russia and China?

MR. MBOYA: Taking China in the first place, since independence, we have received from China a gift of about a million pounds in cash. Beyond that there is no other economic or technical involvement.

From the Russians we had an agreement signed in 1964 with about nine projects. Two of these projects are gift projects. A hospital, a 200-bed hospital in Kisumu, and a one-thousand student technical college. Beyond this, there has been no other technical or economic involvement.

MR. HARSCH: Has there been any break in your receiving economic aid from the Communist countries that ties in with the events you have just been discussing with these other questioners?

MR. MBOYA: There has not been any flow of aid from these countries, and so the question doesn't arise.

MR. HARSCH: Since when?

MR. MBOYA: All the time.

MR. HARSCH: I have in front of me a newspaper clipping which says that there is some evidence that something like $280,000 was made available—that would be 100,000 pounds made available to Kenyatta's opponents by both the Soviet Union and China in an unsuccessful attempt to capture last week's crucial conference of the Kenya African National Union. Is that an accurate statement?

MR. MBOYA: That would not be referring to aid to Kenya.

MR. HARSCH: That is not aid, no.

Is that true though?

MR. MBOYA: I don't know.

MR. HARSCH: Is there any evidence of that?

MR. MBOYA: That is a matter of speculation.

MR. HARSCH: May I go back to the aid business? Are you here in Washington to talk about the possibility of obtaining more economic support-economic and financial, for your country?

MR. MBOYA: We are probing, and it includes both discussions with officials, as well as the World Bank and private investment.

MR. HARSCH: Do you get enough capital from London for your capital investment needs?

MR. MBOYA: We don't get enough. We get quite a substantial amount of our capital needs from London, but we could do with a lot more and not only from London but from every country that can afford to give us some aid.

MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Mboya, according to you, our press has misinformed us pretty badly.

I would like to check a couple of other apparently important things.

The Soviet Union, according to our press, has furnished officers, non-commissioned men, and sent tanks and fighter planes to Somalia, and your country and Ethiopia—again according to reports—have established a joint military liaison committee against guerrilla raids from Somalia. Is that true?

MR. MBOYA: We established a joint defense agreement with Ethiopia long before independence. This was mainly because of our joint border protection agreement.

MR. SPIVAK: Is it true that the Soviet has furnished men and munitions to Somalia?

MR. MBOYA: I do not know the extent of the support they are giving, but I understand they have given some military aid to Somalia.

MR. SPIVAK: Is your Mr. Odinga going to start a new party, or has he already started a new party, as has been reported in this country?

MR. MBOYA: He has not yet started a new party, and from the press reports this morning here, once again, in The New York Times, he is meditating for the next thirty days. That is my understanding.

MR. SPIVAK: Has Mr. Odinga been charged with accepting money from Communist sources and using it politically?

MR. MBOYA: "Charged" would be a very strong word.

MR. SPIVAK: Use your own word.

MR. MBOYA: "Charged" in our context would be in a court of law, which has not been done.