Ford Broadcasts, 1965-1966: 12237637

Read from the scan by GLM-OCR; expect the odd misread word.

MR. MBOYA: First, I'd like to make a correction again that there was no question of a stage-managed party convention. The whole program of reorganizing the party has been going on since 1964. This is because the party was originally used in the struggle against colonialism, and once independence was won, it was necessary to revise its role and also to determine the part it would play in independent Kenya.

Since 1964 we have been organizing party branch elections in the districts. We have 41 districts in the country. This process came to an end last year, and the final position was to organize the party convention, which has now taken place.

In this reorganization we have had to amend the party constitution, and in the process of our amendment of the party constitution we have done away with the post of Deputy President of the party and replaced it with eight Vice Presidents. The purpose of this is to give the party a broader representation and bring in more people from the different provinces at the national executive level. In the course of this reorganization, the Deputy President—that is, the former Deputy President—lost his seat, but this was as a result of an election by the party convention. It is not a stage-managed affair.

MR. SPIVAK: You sound like an American politician, Mr. Mboya. You say there was no Communist plot, that your displacement of Mr. Odinga was just one of those things that happened in the natural process of things, that he himself does not lean towards Communism, and that everything was just in order.

Why did you, according to reports at least, expel six Communist diplomats—some newsmen, three Czechs, two Russians and a Chinese diplomat? Is this too inaccurate?

MR. MBOYA: First, I have not spoken of Mr. Odinga nor have I said anything about his leaning or not leaning toward communism. I have mainly spoken, in reply to your question, about the recent Party convention and the changes that we have made.

Coming to the absolute point you make now, regarding the recent decision to expel a number of people from Communist countries residing in Kenya, the decision was taken by the government on assessing certain facts or positions within the country relative to the activities of the individuals concerned.

We have diplomatic relations still with the USSR, with China and with Czechoslovakia. These expulsions did not have anything to do with whether or not we continue to recognize these countries.

MR. SPIVAK: Mr. Mboya, am I to understand there has been no Communist activity, there has been no attempt to overthrow your government, that you have had no trouble at all from the Communists in your country, is that what you are saying?

MR. SPIVAK: I am asking the question.

MR. MBOYA: I have not said-

MR. MBOYA: I am explaining the situation. If people have any predetermined ideas about these matters, I think the only persons who can interpret the position correctly would be ourselves. There have been activities by certain individuals from certain Communist countries, and those individuals have been expelled from our country because of those activities.

As regards the question of communism itself, our government's position is quite clear. We have published last year a Sessional Paper on African socialism in which we have quite clearly and categorically stated that we would not import into Kenya foreign ideologies, that for Kenya the ideology would be one of African socialism. That means that we reject communism. It also means that we reject capitalism in its well-known form of laissez faire capitalism, and we want to construct in our country and establish for our country our own system and our own society.

MR. ROWAN: Mr. Mboya, to follow up on Mr. Spivak's line of questioning, just so our viewers may have the record straight, I believe that in the last few weeks actually a dozen diplomats and newsmen from Communist countries have been expelled from Kenya, haven't they?

MR. MBOYA: That is qiute true, yes.

MR. ROWAN: Then last fall a man from the New China News Agency was expelled after it was discovered he was the top Chinese Communist intelligence agent in Kenya? I believe that is correct, is it not?

MR. MBOYA: I will not state why he was expelled, but it is true that we did expel him.

MR. ROWAN: It is also true, isn't it, that in the last several months President Kenyatta has had occasion to say in several speeches that there is no room for communism in Kenya?

MR. MBOYA: This is not new. This is what we have said all along.

MR. ROWAN: And I believe that when I was in Kenya in the fall, the press had some large reports about a document purportedly distributed by the Chinese Communists calling for the overthrow of Mr. Kenyatta, is that not correct?

MR. MBOYA: We have had a number of such documents distributed and published.

MR. ROWAN: The point I am trying to establish is whether or not there is a genuine fear in Kenya today that there is some kind of move afoot to overthrow the government of President Kenyatta.

MR. MBOYA: There is no fear as such, but we have, as I have