MOD file DEFE 24/2032/1

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[Lord Trefgarne.}
No one would now seriously doubt that
those happenings were, in fact, an eclipse
of the sun and an earthquake respectively.
I would not deny that there may'have been
divine intervention in respect of the timing
of those events, but certainly I would say
that they were caused by terrestrial forces
which we now fully understand.
Without wishing to pre-empt anything
that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop
of Norwich may say, perhaps I may
pose the question as to whether the exis-
tence of another race or races outside our
universe is compatible with our Christian
principles. I speak only as a simple
member of the Christian faith, but I
think I believe that He loves us and us
alone. I am not aware that there is any
suggestion in the words of Christ or in
the words of the Almighty, as recorded
that we must share his goodness with
people from another universe. There is
no suggestion that there is, indeed, any
other such people. I acknowledge, how-
ever, that, for example, the works of
Darwin were once thought incompatible
with the Christian faith, and so perhaps
my view of the credibility of these things,
from a Christian point of view, is open to
correction. Perhaps the right reverend
Prelate will be able to help us when he
comes to speak.
I emphasise that I do not for a moment
doubt the sincerity and conviction of those
who believe in these objects, who believe
that they are visitor& from another universe
or, at least, some supernatural force
beyond our reason. I simply do not
happen to agree with them. I certainly do
not agree with the learned professor,
t!Speaking on the radio the other morning,
!who said: " Anyone who believes in
J UFOs is a loony ". But as for the sugges-
11 tion that an international study group
!,, should be set up, ·I do not think that I
could countenance that as a serious
' proposal at this time. I emphasise,
however, that I would be happy to
encourage informal links between, for
example, the RAF and the very worthy
groups who believe differently from the
way I do.
Before I sit down, I should just like to
say how much I am looking forward to
the maiden speech of my noble friend
Lord Oxfuird, who is to speak later in
the debate. His name has, of course,
appeared on the Order Paper before
today, and I hope that it appears on the
list of speakers a good many times in the
future. The noble Earl, Lord Clancarty
has done us a service by bringing thi~
matter forward, but I wouid counsel
caution and care.
7.38 p.m.
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The Earl of KIMBERLEY: My Lords,
as the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, has
said, the majority of noble Lords in this
Chamber will be greatly indebted to the
n~ble E~rl, . Lord Clancarty, ~or raising
th1s fascmatmg and controvers1al subject
this evening. Before I begin, perhaps I
should say that I have an interest in it
because I am a director of a company
which is to make an identified flying
object-a thermo skyship, which is saucer
shaped. I shall not get that muddled up.
But in spite of sceptics, such as the noble
Lord, Lord Wigg, the other day in a
newspaper, and Sir Bernard Lovell from
Jodrell Bank, who says that UFOs do
not exist, we must agree that they do,
because otherwise there would be no
unidentified flying objects. Furthermore,
we should not have throughout the world pre
radio telescopes listening to try to pick up ,
signals from intelligences in outer space. sai1
As the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, un<
said, UFOs are not products of the 20th fiyi
centurj imagination. They have been kn(
obserwd here for years-by the North Ev<
American Indians, by the monks of else
Byland Abbey in 1290, who were terrified gal:
by the appearance of a huge silver disc. con
Right through history up to today, pro
millions of people have seen UFOs, and dis~
I will go so far as to say that I am the sile:
first to q.dmit that the very large majority anti
of them can be explained as natural or def~
man-made phenomena-meteorites, sate!- ma1
lite debris, weather balloons, military our
flares, et cetera. But there are still many thei
which are completely unexplained. . kno
l.It has been reported that the United v6.hl ~~~~
States and the USSR signed a pact in "-..b~
1971 to swop UFO information, but the If ! Ir
pact stated that they were to keep the 1 stan
rest of the world in the dark. I believe By
that the pact was signed so that neither suhx
super-Power would make mistakes about ca:n
UFOs being atomic missiles. I am also led proj
to understand that quite recently the three bon:
United States balloonists who crossed cone
the Atlantic were followed for up to 12 Unit
H.L.