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James A. McDivitt oral history (Doug Ward)

NASA Johnson Space Center · 1999-06-29 · 110 pages · text from the file's own layer

This is a NASA Johnson Space Center Oral History Project transcript of astronaut James A. McDivitt, interviewed by Doug Ward at Elk Lake, Michigan, on 29 June 1999. McDivitt talks about flying F-86s in Korea, test pilot work at Edwards, and his first class at the Aerospace Research Pilot School. He also covers turning down Dyna-soar, joining NASA in 1962 and learning to be an Apollo Program Manager. He describes the Change Board and says decisions were not second-guessed.

  • p. 1 …the Air Force—I’d never been in an airplane. Never been off the ground. I…
  • p. 3 …Having never been in an airplane and no idea what it was all about, and I…
  • p. 7 …was that the Dyna- soar Program would never fly. The spacecraft was wrong. They were trying…
  • p. 8 …You know, it was a lifting body concept and the landing thing, but it never flew…
  • p. 10 …I wanted you to know that I realize that I should never have threatened you like…
  • p. 14 …As soon as we got selected, we were told that, “No more uniforms.” We were never…
  • p. 19 …T-38s never had much fuel, and you
  • p. 20 …And some—you know, we didn’t have everything available in the spacecraft, so never was…
  • p. 22 …It never existed then. So, there was always disagreement amongst the astronauts about what the relationship…
  • p. 28 …So, there’s always the thought that, well, maybe he was never going to come around…
  • p. 33 …We’d never had a flight longer than 30 hours, or whatever it was, that Gordo…
  • p. 38 …You know, he never got sick flying airplanes and the crazy motions that we did. And…
  • p. 39 …I mean, we would’ve never gotten to the Moon when we did if we’d…
  • p. 40 …He never got involved in the mission, because the one in the Mission Control Center in…
  • p. 43 …Fortunately, we never had to try that! WARD: Do you think the nature of the ejection…
  • p. 45 …And I never did see it again.
  • p. 46 …I never did see it until years and years later, when I started getting all these…
  • p. 49 …So, you never see more than one light, or hardly ever see more than one light…
  • p. 50 …were able to overcome these problems and never get down to where we were on our…
  • p. 54 …and backup crews did except they were never going to fly. So, they helped us test…
  • p. 57 …And some of the North American people maintain to this day that they were never told…
  • p. 59 …And then I never dealt with him again; and finally he got fired. So, I don…
  • p. 64 …We never did find them. You know, we never knew exactly what caused the fire; so…
  • p. 65 …It’s just impossible!” We were never going to get the weight on the lunar module…
  • p. 69 …Throttled the engine up and down through regimes it probably was never throttled at when it…
  • p. 74 …Well, that was never my attitude. That was never my attitude. As a matter of fact…
  • p. 83 …It never occurred except for the fire, but I know I personally expected a lot of…
  • p. 85 …I threw him out of my office and I said, “You are never, ever to come…
  • p. 86 …I ran the Apollo Spacecraft Program I never had a problem with money. We were always…
  • p. 87 …And I’d never played baseball in my life!
  • p. 91 …I thought that we should never interfere in any way with the flight crews on a…
  • p. 94 …And I think that we would’ve never had an Apollo Program if Rocco hadn’t…
  • p. 99 …I never did get my Major’s on my shoulders. He called Ed up, promoted Ed…
  • p. 105 …said who was recommending it but they never said who was opposed to it. So, we…
  • p. 108 …He never second-guessed me. He had a boss. The Associate Administrator for Manned Spaceflight and…
  • p. 109 …And fortunately, my bosses were such that they never second-guessed what I did. They just…
Johnson Space Center Oral History Project James A. McDivitt
29 June 1999 12-96
were promoted based upon your time and grade. And so, as I was coming up on my time and
grade as a Captain to be eligible for promotion to Major, they changed the rules so that I
was—the next promotion I would have been eligible for promotion to Major. And they
changed the rules where now it was length of time as a commissioned officer. So, instead of
becoming eligible here, based upon when I became a Captain, it had to go back to when I
became an officer. And that length of time moved it way out to here [gestures].
So, I was a Captain for a long time. It went—and just as I was leaving Edwards Air
Force Base and becoming a NASA astronaut, I would’ve been—well, a little bit after that, I
came up for consideration for a promotion to Major, below the zone. And I’d made all these
other things below the zone. And I didn’t make it. I thought, “Hmm, that’s really odd,”
because I knew what my officer efficiency reporting for ratings were. They were all as good
as you can get. And so, then the next year came up and I didn’t get promoted again.
Now Ed White was in the—he went and graduated from West Point when I was
commissioned, within a month or two. So, we were in the same group. So, I went up to the
Pentagon one time to look at my efficiency ratings to make sure that they were what I
thought they were. And I was looking at them, and they were as good as you could get.
They couldn’t be any better. And so, there was a guy standing there, an officer, and I said,
“Could you tell me, do you have any clue as to why I didn’t get promoted this last time?” I’d
been—I’d probably been a Captain longer than anybody in the below zone thing. And he
said, “Well,” he looked at it, “wow,” you know, “I don’t know. But,” he says, “why don’t
you talk to that guy over there? That Colonel right there is the Colonel who was in charge of
the Selection Board.” I was in civilian clothes, because—being in NASA, I couldn’t wear
my uniform.
So, I walk over there and I say to him, “You know, Colonel, I was just going through

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