Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the printed transcript of a July 26, 2023 hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability's Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs, chaired by Rep. Glenn Grothman. Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Navy Commander David Fravor testified on unidentified anomalous phenomena. Members pressed for transparency, whistleblower protection and better pilot reporting. Graves described a near mid-air collision with a dark cube inside a clear sphere off the Eastern Seaboard.
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42 Commander FRAVOR. No, there is none. There is no IR plume coming out and Chad, who took the video, went through all the EO, which is black and white TV and the I&R modes and there is no visual signs of propulsion. It is just sitting in space at 20,000 feet. Mr. LANGWORTHY. In your career have you ever seen a propul- sion system that creates no thermal exhaust? Commander FRAVOR. No. Mr. LANGWORTHY. Can you describe how the aircraft maneu- vered? Commander FRAVOR. Abruptly, very determinant. It knew ex- actly what it was doing. It was aware of our presence and it had acceleration rates—I mean, it went from zero to matching our speed in no time at all. Mr. LANGWORTHY. Now, if the fastest plane on Earth was trained to do these maneuvers that you saw, would it be capable of doing that? Commander FRAVOR. No, not even close. Mr. LANGWORTHY. And just to confirm, this object had no wings, correct? Commander FRAVOR. No wings. Mr. LANGWORTHY. Now, was the aircraft that you were flying was it armed? Commander FRAVOR. No, and never felt threatened at all. Mr. LANGWORTHY. If the aircraft was armed do you believe that your aircraft or any aircraft in possession of the United States could have shot the Tic Tac down? Commander FRAVOR. I would say no, just on the performance. It would have just left in a split second. Mr. LANGWORTHY. It looks like we have a problem here that needs further investigation. Commander FRAVOR. Yes. Mr. LANGWORTHY. In your belief is this flying Tic Tac—I mean, is this—is it capable of being the product of any other nation on the Earth? Commander FRAVOR. No. I actually said—like I said earlier, I think it defies current material science and the ability to develop that much propulsion and I know there has been some physicists that have done calculations, which is beyond anything that we have. Mr. LANGWORTHY. Well, either the United States has an adver- sary here in this world that we do not know or we really have some serious investigations to do. I really appreciate you being here. Is there anything else about the November 14th, 2004, incident that you think is important for this Committee to know that you have not been asked here today? Commander FRAVOR. No. You know, it has been said it is prob- ably the most credible UFO sighting in history, based on all the sensors that were tracking it and then for us to get visual. And to go against the naysayers that it is something on the screen or whatever, I mean, there is four sets of human eyeballs. We are all very credible. Of the six of us that were involved in the thing, including the video, every one of us is going to do 20- plus years in the military in very responsible positions. I would say the world needs to know that. It is not a joke.
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is above. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.