Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the printed transcript of a July 26, 2023 hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability's Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs, chaired by Rep. Glenn Grothman. Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Navy Commander David Fravor testified on unidentified anomalous phenomena. Members pressed for transparency, whistleblower protection and better pilot reporting. Graves described a near mid-air collision with a dark cube inside a clear sphere off the Eastern Seaboard.
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40 Ms. MACE. Did the Tic Tac UAP move in such a way that defied the laws of physics? Commander FRAVOR. The way we understand them, yes. Ms. MACE. Many dismiss UAP reports as classified weapons test- ing by our own government. But in your experience as a pilot does our government typically test advanced weapons systems right next to multimillion-dollar jets without informing our pilots? Commander FRAVOR. No. We have test ranges for that. Ms. MACE. It took over 15 years for your encounter with the Tic Tac to be declassified. Do you feel there was a good reason to pre- vent lawmakers from having access to this footage? Commander FRAVOR. No. I just think it was ignored when it hap- pened, and it just sat somewhere in a file. Never got reported. Ms. MACE. In a drawer. It happens a lot up here. Shocker. Mr. Grusch, a couple of questions for you too, sir, this morning. What percentage of UAPs do you feel are adequately investigated by the U.S. Government, of the 5 percent that are reported? Mr. GRUSCH. I can only speak for my personal leadership over at NGA. I tried to look at every report that came through that I could triage. Ms. MACE. Do you believe that officials at the highest levels of our national security apparatus have unlawfully withheld informa- tion from Congress and subverted our oversight authority? Mr. GRUSCH. There are certain elected leaders that had more in- formation that—I am not sure what they have shared with certain Gang of 8 members or et cetera. But, certainly, I would not be sur- prised. Ms. MACE. OK. You say that the government is in possession of potentially nonhuman spacecraft. Based on your experience and ex- tensive conversations with experts do you believe our government has made contact with intelligent extraterrestrials? Mr. GRUSCH. It is something I cannot discuss in a public setting. Ms. MACE. OK. And I cannot ask when you think this occurred. If you believe we have crashed craft, as stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? Mr. GRUSCH. As I have stated publicly already in my News Na- tion interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries. Yes. Ms. MACE. Were they, I guess, human or nonhuman biologics? Mr. GRUSCH. Nonhuman, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are cur- rently still on the program. Ms. MACE. And was this documentary evidence, this video, photos, eyewitness? Like, how would that be determined? Mr. GRUSCH. The specific documentation I would have to talk to you in a SCIF about. Ms. MACE. Got you. OK. So—and you may or may not be able to answer my last question, and maybe we get into a SCIF at the next hearing that we have. But who in the government, either what agency, sub agency, what contractors, who should be called into the next hearing about UAPs either in a public setting or even in a private setting? And you probably cannot name names, but what agencies or or- ganizations, contractors, et cetera, do we need to call in to get these
Hearing transcript, from the hearings collection. The PDF is mirrored here; the original link is above. 54 pages are in the text index: search them above, or from the library's search.