Documents / Hearing transcript
This is the printed record of a July 26, 2023 hearing of the House Oversight and Accountability Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs, published by the U.S. Government Publishing Office as Serial No. 118-53. Witnesses Ryan Graves, David Grusch and retired Commander David Fravor testified about unidentified anomalous phenomena. Members pressed for government transparency, criticized AARO's classified budget and stigma against reporting, and Graves described a near miss with a dark cube inside a clear sphere.
“Bender”1 page
32 Mr. GROTHMAN. Thank you. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez? Ms. OCASIO-CORTEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for coming here today. I do concur with the Rank- ing Member as well as several other Members here on this Com- mittee that this is a committee for whistleblowers and for the pro- tection of whistleblowers as well. So, we understand what you are putting on the table here and what you are putting on the line here. We thank you for that. Mr. Grusch, you sat on the unidentified anomalous phenomenon task force created in the 2020 NDAA, correct? Mr. GRUSCH. Yes. Ms. OCASIO-CORTEZ. There have been some things that have been mentioned here during this hearing that I wanted to pick up on. Mr. Graves, you mentioned specifically during the answer to one of your questions, you named Boeing contractors being engaged in an incident regarding this red cube about a football field wide. I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about the inter- action—or Mr. Grusch, either of you—the interactions between de- fense contractor companies and any UAP-related programs or ac- tivities. Mr. GRAVES. So, I will just say that the information about the contractors themselves were provided by a witness and I have no particular detail in that relationship. Ms. OCASIO-CORTEZ. Understood. Mr. Grusch? Mr. GRUSCH. The kind of general unclassed wave tops. Certainly, the contractors, you know, or the metal benders, so to speak, the ones actually doing specific performance on government contracts. Ms. OCASIO-CORTEZ. Are they required to issue any disclosure re- garding UAP sightings or do they engage in any reporting around this? Mr. GRUSCH. In terms of the contractors? Not that I am aware of. Ms. OCASIO-CORTEZ. They do not. OK. Now, when it comes to no- tification that you had mentioned about IR&D programs, we have seen defense contractors abuse their contracts before through this Committee. I have seen it personally, and I have also seen the notification requirements to Congress abused. I am wondering, one of the loop- holes that we see in the law is that there is—at least from my van- tage point, is that depending on what we are seeing is that there are no actual definitions or requirements for notification. Are there—what methods of notification did you observe? Like, when they say they notified Congress, how did they do that? Do you have insight into that? Mr. GRUSCH. For certain IR&D activities, I can only think of ones conventional in nature. Sometimes they flow through certain, I will just say SAP programs, that have cognizant authority over the Air Force or something and those are congressionally reported compartments.
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