FBIS Coverage of the Middle East Peace Talks- 1978 September

PPROVED FOR RE ASE CIA HISTORICAL COLLECTIONS DIVISI N AR 70-14 13NOV2013
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=nd then MKflMoshe Shamir said that I had lost my belief in the justice of Zionism.
[Shamir ] I did not say that.
Begin] Just that. I ask you to examine the minutes. Sir, Sir, it is too late for
heckling.
(Shamnir ] To such extent not a historian, Mr Prime Minister-- there is ....
_begin] I did not interrupt him, please al.low me to speak. Be kind enough to pe:-mi'.
me to speak and do not interrupt me, please. Those were the remarks that we made
an I want...that is :hat I heard; prove it in the record, I beg your pardon. And
zany heard. I only want to say this; that in 50 years of serving the people of Israel
a=nd Zionism, my belief in the justice of Zionism has never lessened by even a molecule,
_estpected Mr Shamir; and I continued to believe in the justie of Zfionis-n when you
still believed in the justice of another ideology.
:Ihamir] I was born in Zionism and have never left it, not even for a second, even
in the days- when I was in another movement. I have always been a loyal Zionist ;;ust
_ike you, Mr Prime Minister.
(Begin] I am not denying that. After all, you cast doubts on my belief in the justice
of Zionism. You said so. There is another member of Knesset who said things....
ishamir] By the way, [word indistinct] I call a hammer.
.Begin] I see that you remain in your life under such a ha:aer. There -is another
member of Knesset who said certain things in a certain way the day before yesterdy.
I will not reply even with one word. And I will pass on to the main matter. Camp
--avid. What happened in connection with the settlements at. Camp David. This I
will tell. For 12 days and 12 nights w.e did not cease explaining to the U.S. Prci-
cent and to every one of his aides -- I beg you, merbers of Knesset . 12 days and 11
nights--we did not cease explaining to the President of the United States the essen-
tialness of these settlements, their value from the securiti aspect, their im-'ortancc
from the moral aspect, the rightness,of the previous governments which established
those settlements. This is what- we told him and he replied to me, in one of. the might
talks: I accept, and for a second time I will go and try to convince President a-
Sadat. On this podium tonight I want to thank. President Carter for that. He tri-d
once to convince President as-Sadat to make an arrangement and let the settlements
remain. He did not succeed. And, under the influence of our pleas he said, tn -
?resident of the United States: I will go once more to the Eg;tian president and
try to convince him. And he.went and he came back to me and said:.-I did my'best. -
I used all the reasonings. I did not succeed. What I was told was: I cannot return
nome; my people will not -accept; I will not be -able to save the negotiationo; I
will not be able to sign any agreement.; things you can call by all the names in
the world, which I do not justify, but that was the judgment of .the U.S. Presi "ct .
.- "tr a second attempt t con.:in:e the Egyptian president ab-ut ths ettl n t.
.a consulted in our team. T;at should we do? Tell the U.S.. President: If this
so, we ag'ee to remove the settlements? Unde' no circumsten:e could we do t.._
Pirst, because we were convinced that they should be le"ft as they. er'. .a.: _u
.e deny our awareness? Second, because we also had to explain to our U.. .. _ -
- -he difference between a presidential rule and a ,a:'liamentary ruli. ..- -
;cained the approach with an "aphorism". [in English z ayini;: We are.th.--. :.
t-. nesset and not its rulers.