1995-10-01a- CIA Conference Report: THE CHALLENGE OF ETHNIC CONFLICT TO NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL ORDER IN THE 1990S GEOGRAPHIC PERSPECTIVES 01-Oct-95

C00123268
Summary of Discussion QUESTION: Would you comment on the issues of the
potential for the rise of Southern Chinese-nationalism?
General Discussion DR. GLADNEY: There is the potential for an enor-
mous shift of focus in terms of our understanding of
DR. WIXMAN: I would like to make two comments. China as Hong Kong becomes the issue of the late
First, I think that we need to keep in mind that our 1990s. I am not saying Cantonese separatism is going
analysis is colored by our own Anglo-American or to pull China apart, but I am saying that a strong feel-
Western ethnic perspective and that it affects the way ing of difference exists in the south, and the politics of
in which we perceive the rest of the world geopoliti- difference are becoming very important for China's
cally. Second, with regard to the hierarchical context domestic future. We have tended to focus on border
that Dr. Gladney discussed, I think one has to recog- minorities, yet, when I travel in China, I find that the
nize that context is key to our understanding on the Chinese are not worried about the Tibetans or
international and political level as well. When people Uighur-they are concerned that the Cantonese are
ask someone if they are Uzbek, the answer is yes. getting rich and that they can buy their country three
When they ask them if they are Central Asian, the- times over, and they are worried about those people
answer is yes. When they ask them if they are Muslim, who are poor and who keep coming into our city tak-
the answer is yes. It all depends on the set of-circum- ing all their jobs-this whole issue of floating popula-
stances, the context. In one case, these groups will tion. The government can no longer say, "Hey, keep
fight each other; and in another, they will fight these differences at bay because we have the Soviets,
together against the "outsider." I think one of the the Americans, or the Japanese to worry about." I pre-
problems in making foreign policy is that often we dict that these local level conflicts will become more
focus on the local level and miss the bigger picture. important.
One issue that we need to take into account when
making foreign policy is that, although two groups QUESTION: I'm puzzled by two seemingly contra-
may hate each other, if we get involved, they may be dictory trends in China. One is an increased economy
drawn together against us. and international trade, which appears to imply peace-
ful pursuits, and the other is an increased military,
DR. GLADNEY: Yes, the old proverb that I referred including substantial offensive capabilities. How do
to earlier, "You and I against each other, you and me these fit together?
against my brother, my brother and I against our cous-
ins, our cousins and I against you," articulates such a DR. GLADNEY: It is a very complex situation, and, in
hierarchy. I am very uncomfortable with this whole my opinion, the whole issue has to be framedin terms
discourse on tribalism. The notion of the tribe was of this post-Cold War society. China no longer sees
basically refuted 60 years ago. Now, suddenly, it is itself in opposition to the Soviets. It is interested much
back. A simplistic interpretation of the notion can lead more in microlevel issues. The economic aspects of
to misunderstanding. For example, many assume that this drive a lot of these issues, particularly China's rela-
the Soviet Union somehow held back these ethnic ten- tionship with the Middle East in terms of exporting
sions, and now, with the Soviets out, these tensions military hardware. But I think also the issue is a feeling
have bubbled to the surface. In fact, in many cases- of internal insecurity. During the Tiananmen Square
such as the Tajik versus the Uzbek or the Uzbek ver- incident, there was a rumor that the military was not
sus the Uighur-khe Soviets created the divisions and obeying the leadership's orders to crack down on pro-
ethnic conflicts between groups who are essentially testers. Since then, and I referred to this in my paper,
very similar peoples. Scholars and analysts need to the government has reorganized the military, fired gen-
look at the historical processes and historical contin- erals, and tried to put more loyal people in their places.
gencies. As anthropologists, we are always looking in
terms of context-when, where, why, and how-and
are not drawing these broad generalities.
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