Take All--Gorbachev Urals Visit

Read from the scan by GLM-OCR; expect the odd misread word.

## UNCLASSIFIED

a countrywide scale, but I think that one of the criteria for limiting the monopoly of enterprises must be a limitation of their profitability. Such an experience exists abroad. And it is not worth us pursuing high prices. Yu.F. Chebotarev, head of the social-cultural-service directorate of

"Uralmash," devoted his speech to the difficult problems of his work. In part he raised the question of this area's unprofitability. As an exmaple the cost of a square meter of new housing was brought up. It increases with each passing year, but the payment per square meter is fixed as previously. They have tried to touch on this question but have received a decisive rebuff from the public.

44 (M.S. Gorbachev) How much housing do you have and what is the subsidy for maintaining it?

45 (Yu.E Chebotarev) The subsidy from the works is almost R7 million...

46 (M.S. Gorbachev) Obviously many people would agree to take apartments as their own property?

47 (Yu.F. Chebotarev) There is such an initiative, however the right of such a transferral has not yet been given to the local soviets.

48 (M.S. Gorbachev) But this concerns your housing -- departmental.

49 (Yu.F. Chebotarev) Departmental -- yes it's departmental, however there are many complicated issues here.

(M.S. Gorbachev) But this is a matter of handing them over for free. The apartments are received, people live according to the norm. We are not talking about those who are waiting. Their situation, of course, must be improved. But those whose housing corresponds to the norms should have it given to them as their own property, for free. And let them maintain their apartments themselves and pay for this themselves. For comrades, when we say that rents here are low -- this is an artificial approach. They reduced wages -- and at the expense of this they made housing cheap.

Naturally, this does not concern people in need, poor people. The state is bound to take care of them. But as regards the basic mass it is possible to act in this way. But then, when someone realizes that it is his own apartment, then he will maintain it in a different way. And the housing stock wil be in a completely different condition. Especially our entrances.

Look at what the West does. There wages decide everything. Public stock is very small. On the whole people live on their wages. They get, say, 2,000 dollars and immediately 30 percent go on housing and 11 percent on taxes. Forty odd percent of their earnings has already gone.

We are used to: This is free, that's free --- and people do not see their wages anyway. Now if they were to receive them in full and pay for everything themselves, then it would be a completely different matter.

Apart from this, what does receiving housing as property mean? It means: People have received property. One person, two, many. That is, market relations appear in society.

55 So far this does not exist here. But the question must probably be considered properly.

56 LD2704083290TAKE4

[Excerpts] A.A. Tokminov, leader of a mixed-skill [kompleksnyy] team, recounted that at "Uralmash" the workers' initiative, labor effort and fervor had dropped sharply recently. I am experiencing this in my own brigade and in public work at the scientific and technical council, he continued. If we stop the working man -- the producer of all things of value -- from working well, then it will be very difficult to arouse him